@ummjackson@mastodon.social @Gargron [untagged jec because they just got caught in the middle of this]
the issue is that this isn't how it works
nobody wants to be in the eye of a dogpile tornado where every single user of an instance is upset and yelling
sure, it'd cause Some Noise and Disrupt Those Jerk Admins but like
it's just going to hurt gargron and mastodon in the long run, correct action or not
@boots @ummjackson i don't get what you're trying to get out of blocking tchncs.de. your issue with milan is that he is dismissive/incompetent, not that he is somehow organizing campaigns against our users or whatever. so what you're trying to achieve is saving me and my mods some time doing moderation on this end, when he fails to do it on his. but you know, i'd rather do that than block 7k normal people for no good reason kthx
@ummjackson @boots @Gargron as I've done some back and forth dialogue on this, a lot of things have been done: sandboxing the perpetrators; communication with the admin in his Native Language to avoid important details getting lost in translation; awaiting results of what actions the admin of that server decided to do; and deciding to not punish 7k users for the actions of the few, as the admin tried to have a dialogue and figure out how to possibly improve.
@Gargron @ummjackson @boots The problem is that his instance is "too big to fail", while at the same time he's not enforcing his own community standards.
Would you be connected to his instance when his CoC did not forbid harassment? How do you distinguish between incompetence and malice?
Right now, users are getting pretty much the same moderation/rule enforcement experience as on Twitter, but with additional responsibility delegation.
@boots @ummjackson @Gargron This is also largely a protocol design problem: the entire system is designed around good-faith actors.
The only knob you can turn is instance size, which trades setup cost vs moderation cost.
Setup cost is high already as you need to get connected, so large instances are at an advantage here -- but moderating a large instance is a full-time job, and moderation tools are not up to the task.
@Gargron @ummjackson @boots Part of the problem is that users cannot easily migrate between instances, so there is a lot of inertia in the system.
If an instance fails to enforce its community standards, there is no way for users to go elsewhere and take their network with them.
@ummjackson@mastodon.social @Gargron frankly i think that the admin of a large instance being awful needs a little more careful maneuvering than "just block it"
@Gargron @ummjackson@mastodon.social the flagship instance doesn't really get to shake things up just because people take it as the example and if "the example" does something they dislike for whatever reason, mastodon comes out hurt in the end.