Elon says he cannot possibly be a Nazis because he is a Zionist.
Let's talk for a minute about Nazis and Israel.
First, do not expect consistency from fascists. They will say whatever they think they have to in order to gain power.
Nazis will point out the horrible things Israel does to Palestinians, because they want to encourage people to hate Jews, not because they want less genocide.
But they also embrace the horrible things Israel does to Palestinians.
https://people.com/elon-musk-says-he-didnt-do-nazi-salute-at-trump-event-video-goes-viral-8777743
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Why? Because they want to normalize all the things Israel is doing to Palestinians. After all, they want to do all the same things to various minorities in other countries, including to Jews.
They also point at the things Israel is doing and say "Why do they get an ehnostate? Why is it bad when I want the same thing?"
So they condemn Zionism in order to normalize Jew-hating, but they also embrace Zionism to normalize ethnic cleansing and genocide.
Yes, it's inconsistent.
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@tofugolem@mastodon.social it’s not that inconsistent. Jews more or less count as white people now, so most nazi groups are happy to use arabs as the scapegoat and target of genocidal fury. Then just do the occasional antisemitism to placate the more old fashioned nazis and you have one big happy nazi family. Keep in mind the biggest non-Jewish supporters of Israel- going back to Balfour - have been raging antisemites who want somewhere to send Jews from their own countries.
@ramshackle @tofugolem Jews aren't more or less white. Racial violence is visited apon Jewish people all around the world.
@budsofstone@computerfairi.es @tofugolem@mastodon.social
But more or less, in the west, antisemitism is considered unacceptable and attacks on Jews will be discouraged in polite society. Which is great, no minority group should ever be threatened. But I’d argue that is the case primarily because Jews are now in the whiteness club. And even the dumbest, most rabid nazis have realised they get more traction if they go after groups outside that club.
@budsofstone@computerfairi.es @tofugolem@mastodon.social
Of course I’m referring to ashkenazim here which is what the majority of other white people will have in mind when they consider Jews.
@budsofstone @ramshackle
Yes, there are places in the world where Jews are persecuted.
Yes, not all Jews are white (Israel treats Ethiopian Jews very badly).
But I believe he was referring to the concept of whiteness as it is in America. It is fluid and it doesn't describe physical characteristics. It identifies which groups benefit from systemic racism.
@tofugolem @ramshackle I'm unsurprised people think this with the association between Jews and israel. But Jews aren't white never have been and Nazi's still hate jews.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_antisemitic_incidents_in_the_United_States
Here is a very incomplete look at high level incidents in America.
@budsofstone @ramshackle
Being hated by Nazis isn't part of the definition of whiteness.
Benefitting from systemic racism is, and in America, Jews benefit from systemic racism far more than they are harmed by it.
People don't understand how fluid whiteness is. When I was a young teen in West Germany (I'm old), the white supremacists there did not consider Greeks or Italians white.
Go back in time, and you'll find American racists with the same attitude.
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@budsofstone @ramshackle
Go back to the 19th century, and you'll find "scientific" arguments that Irish people are closer to gorillas than to human beings.
The definition of whiteness has always varied with both time and place.
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@tofugolem @ramshackle I understand perfectly how fluid the idea of whiteness is. And you aren't telling me anything I don't already know. Your conflating America's support of their puppet state Israel with the Jewish diaspora. Your just flat wrong jewish people as a race don't benefit from systemic racism. saying centuries of persecution is just gone because, Israel is ridiculous. You could say Israelis benefit from the genocide their government is committing but that's a different conversation
@budsofstone@computerfairi.es @tofugolem@mastodon.social
Do you think if an ashkenazi Jew and a black person in the US were applying for the same job they would be on an even playing field? If they were being pulled over at a traffic stop? If they were accused of a crime? The specific point about whiteness has nothing to do with Israel, it’s no longer being the big bad other.
@budsofstone @ramshackle
Jews are still subject to occasional attacks by fascists, but they also accuse critical of Israel of being just like the Nazis, and the entire justice system can sometimes be wrapped to punish criticism of Israel based entirely on their whining.
@budsofstone@computerfairi.es @tofugolem@mastodon.social
In the west, where the social construct that is whiteness applies and nazi movements are based, Islamophobic attacks are far more common. And more importantly they are far more socially acceptable. Because arabs and muslims in general are outside the umbrella of whiteness. They are held up as the barbaric other, the threat to white civilisation.
Whiteness is a social construct, so of course there are versions that don’t include Jews. Hell, there are versions that don’t include Italians or the Irish.