A question, for anyone who wants to answer, about trust.
If someone breaks your trust in a fundamental way, can you "get over it" and trust them again?
I have a situation where I'm being told I need to get over it, and I think I have - I'm no longer angry. But trust them again? Put myself in a situation where I could be hurt by them again? No. I've never done that before, why should I start now?
And is this a me thing, or an autism thing?
@ScottSoCal @actuallyautistic
For obvious autistic reasons, I don't trust easily. So if someone's gone out of their way to abuse trust once I've given it to them, then I'm afraid they're dead to me and that's never changing.
@pathfinder @ScottSoCal @actuallyautistic
despite I have utterly painted myself into a lonely corner this way, I agree, itβs not my heart, itβs my head refusing to ignore the evidence
@ScottSoCal @actuallyautistic I believe it's an autistic thing to have a heightened sense of justice. I feel like this article covers it and other aspects of different autistic emotions well, might help in this situation https://neuroclastic.com/very-grand-emotions/
I'm sorry you're being told to "get over" something, not very empathetic. Usually when people tell me something like that, they're frustrated. So I find it helpful to figure out what it is that they're frustrated about and tackle that separately.
Asking you to make yourself less isn't really a fair ask on their part, so I tend to stick to my ground on that front. Usually something along the lines of, "I need to respect my feelings, and I feel uncomfortable in this situation because of XY and z. I know you don't want me to feel uncomfortable, so let's figure out a solution.." I would make sure that the trust break is evident and provide info on what it would take for me to feel better... Usually time, space, & the incident not repeating again.
Interesting article. I do cry at movies - but *never* when other people are there. I can probably count on one hand the number of people who have ever seen me cry.
I don't know why - it just seems very intimate and vulnerable, and I'll do whatever it takes (including inappropriate jokes) to break the feeling before it can get to that point.
@ScottSoCal @actuallyautistic not sure it is exclusively an autistic thing, but i too have similar issue
i think we tend to me more cautious at the get go, so when the trust is broken, we take longer to get back to a place where we feel safe again
@ScottSoCal @actuallyautistic I have a very difficult time trusting a person again once trust is broken. For me it's like a scale that has been finally tipped to one side and is now stuck that way. Cumulative injuries over a lifetime are what tip that scale. It is sort of like the proverbial last toothpick that finally tips the scale.
I don't know for sure if that is an autism or neurodivergent thing, but I am autistic.
@ScottSoCal @actuallyautistic Another thing I've noticed is that neurotypical people always seem to think that is "holding a grudge" when really, it is just about trying to protect myself. There's usually no anger involved, just fear or exhaustion. It's definitely not a grudge in the way they're thinking.
@ScottSoCal @actuallyautistic Why do people tell you that you need to get over it? I think if someone broke your trust in a fundamental way it's up to them to keep working to build trust back up, not on you to trust someone who has hurt you in such a way.
Forgiveness is something else. But you already did that.
I think protecting yourself is reasonable. Too often we're too gullible and people tend to take advantage.
@ScottSoCal @actuallyautistic "Forgive perhaps, but never forget". I'd add "Trust? Never". Maybe I'm just a vindictive old fart, maybe not.
@ScottSoCal @actuallyautistic mmm, give it at least a few years, ideally 5~10 before they can really start earning any trust back
@ScottSoCal @actuallyautistic Everyone gets one free opportunity to break my trust. One. After that they get to stand in line behind the other 8 Billion people on the planet.
Just one.
When I was five years old I caught my grandmother cheating at go-fish. She died when i was in my 30's having never played another game with me.
@roknrol @ScottSoCal @actuallyautistic
I can't believe your grandma did that. I can play a board game and play multiple positions by myself and still not cheat.
@Adventurer @ScottSoCal @actuallyautistic Right? Even at 5 I knew it was a stupid thing to lie about. She never regained that trust. I loved her, but no trust there.
Autistic here, and no. You get one chance with me. Breach my trust, and you never get to be part of my life again.
My trust has all sorts of mechanisms to account for human error and the unexpected. It's actually pretty hard to break my trust, so, no it's only possible to repair with extreme directed effort.
Like, yea, I've healed from that bridge giving way from under me. Whether it has been repaired has everything to do with whether I'm putting my weight on it again, but even if so, maybe not.
@ScottSoCal@computerfairi.es @actuallyautistic@a.gup.pe Trust grows over time for me. To start with, there is very little trust, so very little to break. Humans will human, we're getting used to each other, mistakes happen. But the longer I know somebody, and the better they get to know me, and I feel they do know me, and I have given them a few pages from my manual, the more trust grows, and the bigger the possible breach gets.
I tried once to get over it. Reasoned it out with myself, in the situation I was with that person, and the circumstances. I intentionally put trust in that person, because mitigating circumstances, and would have completely upended my life otherwise. And you know what, they betrayed my trust again, just the same, the very next opportunity, and the upending happened anyway.
Go with your intuition. You're over it, not angry, so there's likely a good read. If you feel you can't trust that person again, don't. First time, trust is given, an advance of good faith. If that is broken, it must be earned. If somebody asks to "get over it", it's usually their own comfort they're looking out for, not your benefit.
I'm not diagnosed, but strongly suspected to be autistic. Some kind of neurospicy, definitely.
@ScottSoCal @actuallyautistic I have no idea whether it's an autism thing, but it may be more difficult for autists or other people who've been bullied/traumatized/abused to do.
For me, rebuilding trust is a two-direction street. If the person who broke my trust told me to "get over it", I'd be less likely to trust them. That sort of attitude invalidates my feelings and seems borderline abusive. (I acknowledge that you didn't mention who told you to "get over it", but for me that is a factor). If the person who broke trust is willing to try to rebuilt it, then I'm usually willing to give it a try on a step-by-step basis. I think it's unrealistic for it to automatically be a 100% restoration of trust.
I also think it depends on how they broke trust. Someone who tried to kill me? Uh, no. Someone who stole some money? Perhaps. Someone who lied to me about having to work because they didn't want to hang with me? Okay, but there'll always be a nagging doubt in my mind whether whatever you say to me is a lie.
I would say this is just a human thing.
If someone breaks my trust once, that's it. Never again.
@ScottSoCal @actuallyautistic For me every situation is different. It depends on what has been done to repair the trust afterwards. For instance if they seem completely unconcerned with doing so, or unrepentant about the transgression in the first place, then yeah, I couldn't nor wouldn't trust them again. If they are willing to talk to you about it, seem genuinely sorry about it, and are willing to try to earn your trust back over a period of time, then I'd say it's at least possible. I've only had that happen once though. Not many people are willing to put in the work.